Tagged: FIFO Violation
December 5, 2018 at 8:23 #7412
I am also receiving email messages in MetaTrader, titled “Trade could not be closed due to FIFO violation”. Do you know how the Expert Advisors, or MetaTrader, cam overcome, or solve, this situation?
December 5, 2018 at 8:26 #7413
Here is the exact mail message from MetaTrader.
Your trade could not be closed because you have an older trade on the same currency pair. To comply with NFA FIFO regulations, you must first close your older trade. Please note, continued FIFO violations may lead to your account being locked.
This is coming from my demo account.
December 5, 2018 at 9:35 #7416
I see now you are in the US, aren’t you? There is the FIFO violation if you trade with many EAs with same lots. It is not like you are breaking the rules or something, this is just how US brokers work.
Basically you are not able to trade more than one Expert Advisor for one currency pair in one account. The rule stands exactly as they wrote to you, that you should close first your older trade.
There are many traders in the US complaining about this FIFO violation rule, but that comes from the regulations in the country, and the legit brokers must follow it. I am not really the man who will comment it if they decided that this is good, then it is 🙂
December 5, 2018 at 19:26 #7439
Ah, I see now why the FIFO thing was brought up. Oh, my. I wonder if I may be doing something bad with the way that I am trading then. Does this mean my broker is not good because I have been able to do this. Crappers now I have to only do one EA per currency pair. Ugh, that is horrible.
December 5, 2018 at 20:20 #7443
Yes, if you are in US and your broker allows hedging and makes FIFO violation that is quite suspicious, are they regulated?
December 5, 2018 at 20:25 #7444
Whelp, now I feel bad because it looks like they’re not regulated. Sheesh. Why oh why do they make it so hard for US traders??? Looks like I need to find another broker that accepts US clients.
December 5, 2018 at 20:48 #7446
It is really strange that the most democratic country is puts such restrictions, and the FIFO violation s just a too, to push the traders to their stock exchanges
December 5, 2018 at 20:55 #7447
Jacpin,you need to check if it is your fault to trade with them.i mean if they allow it, you trade, you redraw money and it is fine, did you try to redraw?
December 6, 2018 at 3:48 #7450
Petko, thank you for the answers. This really throws a wrench into using your 99 Expert Advisors strategy. I really like the idea. My broker does allow for multiple practice sub accounts, but I would need 33 sub accounts to test the 99 Expert Advisors. I’m not sure I can have that many sub accounts. I’d also have to be running 33 instances of MetaTrader.
Then I’d have to have multiple live accounts to truly take advantage of the top 10-15 Expert Advisors.
FX Blue – can you combine multiple broker accounts to consolidate tracking in one FX Blue account?
Have you seen what other US traders are doing to use multiple Expert Advisors per currency pair? Do you have any suggestions?
December 6, 2018 at 4:59 #7452
Petko, and others, I just spoke to a colleague of mine who uses the same US broker. He said if you change the lot size per Expert Advisor, then you can place multiple Expert Advisors on the same currency pair in the same account.
If that is the case, how much would you recommend deviating from the 0.1 lots in the Advisors? Would you create a range from 0.05 to 0.15 lots? If so, that would give me a total of 11 Expert Advisors per currency pair, or 33 Expert Advisors per account. Then if I have three practice accounts, or instances of MetaTrader, I will be able to trade the 33 Expert Advisors per currency pair. This actually seems doable.
I have created an RPA (Robotic Process Automation) robot to load the 99 Expert Advisors into one MetaTrader account. Now I’ll have to modify the robot to populate 3 MetaTrader accounts, and the robot can dynamically change the lot sizes also.
Then with a live account, if I want to trade up to the top 15 Expert Advisors, I can use the lot range of .08 to .12 for each currency pair. That would allow me to trade 5 different charts per currency pair and should be doable in one account.
Also, for FX Blue, I discovered you need to create a separate account for each broker account – practice or live. Then you can create a Portfolio in FX Blue where you can combine as many accounts as you want and analyze the entire portfolio at the same time. Sweet!
Does this sound like a good strategy or do you have any other suggestions?
December 6, 2018 at 8:39 #7455
quite interesting here. As I said to Jacpin I am not in US, and I can not really give 100% answer about the FIFO violation. Just I do not want to mislead you. But I have read a lot and many traders complained about this limitation.
Anyway for the trading I could help you of course.
First, when you say your friend is trading with the same broker, do you mean the one Jacpin uses or yours? It would be great to share the name(just do not put links). This way the other US traders will have an idea which broker could be used.
Now regarding the trading, I get your idea. One thing is in FX BLue you should start looking in the results for the pips, and not for the Net Profit. You will need to find which EAs make most pips.
The whole idea is not really hard to be done, specially if you know what you are doing.
That RPA that you mentioned places all the EAs you have in the folder to the opened charts? Only for one currency pair or for all?
December 6, 2018 at 16:17 #7462
@thetrader-Yeah, you would think some freedoms would be allowed, but alas it is not. That’s ok. I just tested taking some of my profit out and I had no issues. I don’t know if it is because it is cryptocurrency or not. But I was able to withdraw and the bitcoin was sent within 24 hours. As of right now, I was able to withdraw 50% of what I initially invested, so I am happy about that. In looking at the trade history, it actually looks like my broker (Coinexx) is following the FIFO rule. Or my EAs just happen to work so that maybe this issue hasn’t come up yet. All in all, I’m sticking with who I have until something arise, but will keep an eye on things.
December 6, 2018 at 20:44 #7467
The US broker who allows different lot sizes to overcome the FIFO rule is OANDA.
Thank you for the suggestion about analyzing the growth in FX Blue. Because we would have different lot sizes, we would want to look at pips and not dollars.
The RPA I built performs the following tasks:
1. Copies the files to the MetaTrader expert advisors folder – only the current month remains in the folder.
2. Refreshes the expert advisors in MetaTrader.
3. Closes all open MetaTrader chart windows.
4. Loops through each expert advisor file in the MetaTrader expert advisors folder, performing these steps:
4a. Identify the currency pair and time frame based on the file name.
4b. Open chart window in MetaTrader for the identified currency pair and change the time frame for that chart window to the identified time frame.
4c. Add the expert advisor to the chart window that was just opened.
4d. Dynamically changes lot size based on a configuration that is set.
5. After all expert advisors are added to individual chart windows, the auto trade button is checked, or enabled.
So basically, the RPA robot is built to do everything. I am now going to modify the robot to work with three different MetaTrader accounts.
I’ll let you know if I get it to work.
December 6, 2018 at 22:23 #7469
that sounds pretty interesting. Let me know how it goes with the robot, I would be interested to update some of the courses with it. Of course you will let me know how much that would cost.
About the broker, it is great you share, so other traders from US will have an idea if they face the FIFO violation. Just please do not put links, anyway we will need to remove the post.
December 6, 2018 at 22:51 #7470
I can understand about not sharing links.
My plan is to get this all setup within the next few days. I’ll let you know how it goes.
Perhaps we can discuss more off the forum, if you would like.
December 7, 2018 at 9:46 #7474
December 7, 2018 at 13:04 #7482
December 7, 2018 at 15:59 #7493al_kuwait55Participant
Guys, the FIFO rule is extremely clear. If some broker brakes it, you might be in trouble with your money.
December 7, 2018 at 16:23 #7494
I confirmed this morning with a representative of the US broker and the broker website, that FIFO rules apply to the same currency pair AND the unit size (lot size) of the trade.
I specifically asked, as a follow up question, the example of opening a trade for 0.02 lots on a currency pair, and then opening a trade on the same currency pair for 0.03 lots. The representative confirmed those trades are independent of each other and the FIFO rules do not apply to those two trades.
US FIFO rules only apply for the same currency pair and the same unit size.
Let me know if anyone understands differently.
December 7, 2018 at 21:00 #7498al_kuwait55Participant
That is quite interesting to know about the FIFO Violation, and it will be useful to all US traders. And it will be great to be confirmed from other brokers too.
I have Kuwaiti residence and US in the same time, so have the Kuwaiti allows me to open accounts easily. I read the topic above and Petko is write that you should concentrate on pips if you use different lot sized.
The hard thing will come when you select one asset to trade on real account. So if you have 2-3 EAs for EURUSD for example, you will need to place them with different lots as well. Of course, if you are trading with huge lots as 1.23, 1.24 etc is not an issue, but if you trade with 0.01 and 0.02, it would be double trading for one.
December 7, 2018 at 21:06 #7499
Thank you for the response! I’ll try to update how things work once I have all the testing setup. I plan to have a robot do all the setup in testing of 99 EAs in three different MetaTrader platforms (33 each).
December 7, 2018 at 21:23 #7500
That is some good information for all US traders!
Does this mean that the Never losing formula could be executed without a problem? If you have watched my courses with it, the lots are different with every time we enter. Now only the first 2 are same, but since they are with 1.4, It is not a problem to change it with 1.41 just to be different.
That will give solutions to many trades in US, and they will be cool because they are within the FIFO violation
December 7, 2018 at 21:26 #7502
Sounds correct. I do admit I need to learn about the Never Losing Formula. Which course is that in?
December 7, 2018 at 21:36 #7504
It is in the crypto courses. Actually it will be interesting for you, because many students wrote to me that they automated the formula, and are very happy with the results. However, I teach that it should be controlled manually.
The idea there is that we use Expert Advisor to open the trade, and after that we use the Never Losing formula to exit with the TP or worst case scenario on Break Even. We eliminate the losses totally.
I had in couple of courses, but these two are dedicated to the Never losing formula:
Actually the second course was our best seller and over 4000 students joined it during the last one year.
Now, what I am looking with the formula is the volatility.
It is in my to do list to create a course about Forex and the Never Losing Formula.
December 7, 2018 at 21:39 #7505
Awesome! Thank you Petko. I actually purchased the Etherum course but have not started it yet. Soon as I finish the robot for the forex strategy, I will start that course.
December 7, 2018 at 23:21 #7506
Glad to hear that. Make sure to organize your time. It is very important in trading.
December 11, 2018 at 10:45 #7584
can you please share your experience regarding the FIFO Violation? Is it same with your broker as David said, possible to trade one asset in one account but with different lots?
December 11, 2018 at 16:06 #7595
@Petko and everyone-In my demo account, it looks like FIFO is not taken into consideration (but maybe this is just because it’s demo). So, I’m going to say that this is probably the same in live. I don’t have multiple EAs for the same currency pair in my live account yet, so I haven’t experienced the violation yet. However, I do see that I can trade one asset in one account with different lots. This is a great work-around to FIFO. Since my ultimate goal is to have 4 EAs running on 2 different time frames for 1 currency pair, I am going to have to trade with smallest lot size of 0.01-0.04, with my best performing EA getting the 0.04 lot size. These lots sizes are only if I have more than 10 EAs running. For less than 10, I would use lot size 0.10-0.13.
Hope this helps. Still kinda crappy that we have to do it this way, but with strong strategies, it shouldn’t be an issue with being profitable. I really like my broker, so I’m sticking with them and just doing the work-around when need be.
December 11, 2018 at 17:38 #7605
thank you for sharing your experience. That is really great information for the other traders from US that might be reading this topic.
Now keep in mind that trading with different lot sizes will not change the strategy.
The only hard thing could be the decision which EAs to trade with smaller/bigger lots.
But possible solution could be the ones that are having better results on the Demo to be used with a bit bigger lots.
For example, if you have 10 EAs on Demo for one currency pair, and you want to take the Top 3 from there, you can trade with 0.13 the one with highest profit, with 0.12 the second one, and with 0.11 the third.
However, once placed on the live account you will need to follow pips result, and not net profit.
Also, if you keep them on Demo account, you can follow their performance there(having in mind that Demo and Live should open same trades).
Anyway, this gives kind of freedom to the US traders around the FIFO violation.
January 11, 2019 at 23:11 #8389HaliffaParticipant
It will be great if you share more! I have some friends in US that they still consider having the EA Studio because of the FIFO violation. So if there are more solutions here will be great.
Petko is fine to discuss all(only links to brokers are not tolerated).
January 11, 2019 at 23:31 #8390
@Petko-Thanks for this. I am using your work around solution. I picked the strategy that has the higher winning percentage and also lowest drawdown as the one that will have the different lot size. Since I have less than 10 EAs running on live account right now, my lot size is 0.1 for one and 0.11 for the other. Not that big of a difference, but enough of a difference that i worked around the FIFO rule. 🙂
@Haliffa-I’m a US trader as well, so if this is the only thing preventing them from trying out EA Studio, let them know about my work around and they will be good to go.
January 12, 2019 at 11:09 #8396HaliffaParticipant
thank you for letting me know this. I will let them read the forum a bit more 🙂
January 12, 2019 at 11:43 #8400ChingiParticipant
I did not know there is such rule in US. Does not make sense to me..
January 12, 2019 at 23:29 #8412
yes, many traders from US complain about the FIFO rule, but it is very strict. The idea behind is to keep the traders from risk, but actually the risk is not in hedging but in everyone’s willing to risk. This is about the money management (huge lots trading in small account.
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